The kitchen is buzzing with talk of Cuisinart slowcookers. "Maybe it's time to permanently retire the old vintage number and bring my family's roast beef into the 21st century... whaddya think?"

"That's one big hunk of meat!"

Meanwhile, in the lounge, one mom has a different beef: "My husband can go in the bathroom and read the paper without a single interruption... this is just not fair."

It's an all-female gathering all right, but it's taking place online at urbanmoms.ca. "Women and community is not a new thing," says founder Jennifer Maier. However, "women are now getting (support) through the Internet, whereas before it might have been the community hall, church or synagogue."

Urbanmoms.ca features mommy blogs and Q&As with parenting experts, but also serves as a "conduit for big brands," says Maier. There's no traditional advertising, but brands can sponsor different sections of the site, becoming part of the conversations women are having. For example, Cuisinart is featured in the "kitchen party" section and product reviews for Dove appear under "cool products and stuff." However, it can't just be any brand. "We bring them in if they make sense for the community and add value to the members," says Maier.

But how do online communities benefit marketers? It's about conversations instead of campaigns, says Adrian Capobianco, vice-president of interactive at Fuse Marketing. The idea of social networks is "less about talking to two million people for 10 seconds and more about talking to 10,000 people over two years."

But as they look for new ways to connect with women, some marketers are going beyond becoming part of existing online social networks like urbanmoms.ca and are creating their own. When done right, online communities can build customer loyalty, say proponents. However, some marketer forays into these virtual quilting bees are generating the wrong kind of buzz.

Take Oxygen, for example. The New York-based cable network says its online community, oomph.net, was "designed for women who are strong, independent and have something to say, which is exactly what the Oxygen brand is all about." Betsy Finston, VP of online at Oxygen says oomph.net is "an exciting opportunity to showcase this very interesting audience that we've gotten to know very well."

This grown-up version of girl power sounds good on paper. But in reality, it's as scary as a Spice Girl reunion tour. On oomph.net in early March, a man called "MeBeinMe" blogged about the summer he sold books door to door and "walked and talked with Jesus the entire time." The blogger "Calliope" posted her latest painting titled "How to fit a gas mask onto a child's face" and went on to say she's worried she's showing symptoms of manic depression. "Or maybe I'm just falling in love." Interesting, sure. But how does this benefit the brand? "If we can be a multi-platform company, the value of the company is greater," says Finston.

Interestingly, it's not even clear that oomph.net is run by Oxygen, save for the fine print at the bottom of each page-even the "About us" page is blank. The marketing department blogs about the network's shows, but these are difficult to locate. "We really took it down a notch in terms of branding," says Finston.

That kind of understated branding got Procter & Gamble into trouble when it launched its online community, Capessa, with critics accusing the company of deceptive marketing. The site was created for women to tell their "inspirational stories" on topics such as breast cancer, relationships and careers. But again, it's not clear the site (http://health.yahoo.com/capessa) is sponsored by P&G, unless you read the small print at the bottom of the page.

P&G launched the site to "learn more about women (18 to 34)... so that we can create products that really meet their needs," says Robyn Schroeder, a spokesperson for P&G in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Some bloggers call it "spying" on women but Schroeder insists the company isn't being deceptive. "We're not trying to hide anything. If someone would come to us and ask is this run by Procter & Gamble Productions, we would of course say yes."

So why not come out and say it? "It's not about selling products, it's about providing these women with a forum," says Schroeder. "At this point we need to be focused on the consumer rather than selling advertising on our brands."

There's a term for this, "astro-turfing," says Jennifer Evans, partner at Toronto-based Swing, which specializes in women's marketing. "It's fake and it goes against the entire idea of community building. You cannot have an authentic community unless it's founded on transparency and trust."

Marketing blogger Kate Trgovac (mynameiskate.ca) agrees. "Never lie about who you are because you will be found out. It amazes me that marketers think they won't, and they will."

Trgovac also says marketers often go into social networks "not really knowing what they're going to bring to the party... You need to have something to give in return. If marketers can do that, a positive relationship can be forged."

As important as transparency is, online communities can't be a "product push" either, adds Evans. "If (women) want to research information about a specific product, there are tons of places they can do that. They're looking for a value-added experience when it comes to the community side of things."

Evans had that approach in mind when her firm created defineyourself.ca, an online community for the pharmaceutical company Medicis, maker of the cosmetic filler Res-tylane. The site was under development at press time, but Evans says it will be an online destination for women to talk about aging. "The site is not about the product, it's about the experience of what beauty means to (women) and what the experience of aging is like."

The site, which will be clearly branded Medicis, will feature "webisodes" of women talking about aging. "The experience of growing older and realizing things are changing can be a little isolating," says Evans. "Having an online destination to talk about those things can be powerful."

But why would women share their feelings on a site that has something to sell? "They will go online to talk about a problem and how your product can solve it," says Evans. Marketers "can't start with a brand and that's the difference between community building and advertising. You've got to start with the user and their needs in mind."

Urbanmoms.ca is one community that's getting it right, says Trgovac. "What they're doing is awesome. Their relationship with Cuisinart, where they're bringing that brand to a group of women to try out, is one of the best examples where a marketer can bring something to a social network."

Urbanmoms also takes its virtual community into the real world, with Cuisinart Kitchen Parties. This winter, six urbanmoms.ca members in Toronto and Calgary were asked to host parties, where a Cuisinart chef shared recipes and educated guests about the company's products.

Certainly, brands such as Cuisinart open themselves up to negative comments as women discuss their products, but the point is to have a conversation with consumers. "When you look at traditional ways of connecting with an audience, things like advertising and PR, it's a one-way dialogue," says Evans. With online social networks, consumers can "talk back and express things that are important to them."

And women, it seems, are eager to join the conversation. As one woman asked on urbanmoms.ca: "Can those of us with ugly kitchens but good friends be included too?"